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| "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | Views: 1381 |
| Dec 23, 2008 7:20 am | | "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Rashmi Tandon | | Dear Lawyers on this network. (hope there are judges too on this network)
Is there any way to get the civil cases solve faster by the judges in the court. Inspite of cases being tranferred to the senior judges & is in fast track.
Does fast track means not solving the case inspite of being 3 years?
After almost every year why the judges keep changing without solving a particular case.
It is so easy in Indian courts to get escape from the trials, whole lot of excuses can work to skip and get a new date I have some few to share :-
1) Medical certificate cannot attend the court ? Next date please
2) Death in family ? Next date please
3) Marriage in family ? Next date please
4) Lawyer not well? Next date please
5) all sort of occasions in lawyers family ? Next date please
6) Papers not submitted? Sorry!!!! Next date please
7) Payment not made which needed to submitted relevant to date? Required cash not hand !! Next date please
Any bloody excuses which is missing to miss the date is there. Inspite of knowing all the facts why dont our judges get strict and solve the matter... Every judge needs to give a chance to the other party to get "NEXT DATE" for the reason he should get the chance also to prove him.
Is there any civil cases solved so far ... May i ask the lawyers, how many cases they are carrying forward year after year and how many they have solved so far... How many file are being piled up at their archives, allowing dust to settle on them.
"Easy way given by the lawyers to solve the matter out of the court"
Benefits for the people against whom the cases have been filed : (only one example i can think of)
If it is your home. get ready to part with your property or get ready to pay them for the heavy amount which was never meant to be !
Will ever Indian Penal Court will improve on taking decisions? Is there anybody to solve cases lying in court for decades ?
We are just the petty sufferers. There must be some civil cases lying in the court wherein the person who has filed the case against would have surely left this world leaving behind the cases for their generations to follow up
All the best to all those who are the sufferers hope in your "next date " you will see some positive answer from your "current judge"
take carePrivate Reply to Rashmi Tandon |
| Dec 23, 2008 1:44 pm | | re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Sanjay Saha | | Your views are perfectly in consonance with what is actually happens in our courts day in and day out . The legal system needs to be revamped , justice delayed is justice denied . Private Reply to Sanjay Saha |
| Dec 23, 2008 2:32 pm | | re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Ritu | | For Judges n lawyers our cases are just another case...for you n me it might be a matter of life n death..I guess there should be an audit for each lawyer n Judge along the lines you suggested & there should also be ACRs n accountabilty | show reason why a case is not decided within the given time frame!! I guess courts are about the only places where there are no deadlines & everyone takes their own sweet time!! Private Reply to Ritu |
| Dec 24, 2008 5:11 am | | re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Jayant Tewari, OutSourced CFO | | While the overall content of Rashmi's post is quite accurate and her feelings and angst understandable, I wonder if the use of the term "solve" is intentional or a failure of her understanding of the role of the courts .... courts are supposed to adjudicate, i.e. deliver judgement upon, evaluate the relative merits of the charges and envidence presented before them after the case / matter has been "solved" by the executive to the best of its judgement. In a criminal matter, the case is "solved" by the police, the accused is "charged" before the court on which the court pronounces "judgement" of acquittal or guilt.
Hope I've enhanced your understanding ...Private Reply to Jayant Tewari, OutSourced CFO |
| Dec 24, 2008 8:12 am | | re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Rashmi Tandon | | Dear Mr. Tewari,
My angst against the lawyers n judges is not related to the civil case wherein we are undergoing for a decade. But it is related to the "unsolved" matters/ issues lined up at the courts of India and only on raising the voice through media one can find few cases getting a judgement (as per your statement).
Reference the evidence, sir i believe most of them get erased off with a due course of time, leaving the sufferer without any answer. I agree with Sanjay and Ritu, the lawyers and judges needs to be kept under vigilence to solve the cases timely. But who cares? ONLY SUFFERERS KNOW :)
Solving a case means getting a judgement! "well enhancing my understanding perse court as a lay person is as above, but seems you have never visited any of the Delhi Courts, otherwise all legal terms get clarifies when you find the opposition party asking for a "NEXT DATE"
All the best for X-mas and New Year
Private Reply to Rashmi Tandon |
| Dec 24, 2008 11:56 am | | re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Jayant Tewari, OutSourced CFO | | Rashmi,
Point taken .... and I fully agree with you that the legal system is not sufficiently pro-active or reactive to social requirements .... I'm also fully aware of the "next Date" phenomenon ....
Unfortunately most of these matters do not lie within the personal jurisdiction of the judges themselves ... they are mandated by The Indian Evidence Act and the Criminal Procedure Code, which defines the number of non-appearances after which a warrant may be issued, the grounds under which such a non-appearance may be condoned etc. If the lawyer makes a plea in compliance with the Code, there is no choice left to the judge except for granting another date.
The fact that both these Acts and Codes are hopelessly outdated, being creations of the British is a sad commentary of our political system - the parliament being the sole amending authority, are also the primary users of these draconian legislation for their personal benefit.
I do believe we get the government we deserve, after all the elite are the ones who'd rather watch a movie than take the trouble to vote !!!
Judges are visible and easy to blame .... but are they personally responsible as a class - I wonder ....
BTW I'm neither a judge, bor do I have one in the family, nor am I a lawyer and am subject to correction from more learned members of this forum ...Private Reply to Jayant Tewari, OutSourced CFO |
| Dec 24, 2008 11:57 am | | re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Sanjay Saha | | Dear Rashmi,
There is a lot of angst in your observations - seems you have been at the receiving end and been in such a situation recently .
Pls. write back if you need any help .. I 've got friends and contacts at good places.
Regards,
SanjayPrivate Reply to Sanjay Saha |
| Dec 24, 2008 3:03 pm | | re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
7 Th Thinking Hat | | It is not easy to judge a judge but some issues do cause indignation. How many times you hear a lower court verdict being setaside or turned down by a higher court; or you head the script," ....the honourable ...court has erred in....."etc.
I wish that not only the time taken by a judge to settle a case should be displayed in judiciery's website but also if more than three judgements are reversed/ diluted by a higher court the judge concerned must be accountable.
If an honourable citizen erred will the court forgive? How the judge is forgiven and no action taken against such judge for wrong/ faulty judgment?
Also a citizen is supposed to know all laws and all interpretations as "Ignorantia juris non excusat" but how many judgments overlooked some rule/law?
When several cases drag on for years together how come some VIP/celebrity cases and instantly listed and heard or even settled?
And then this law of contempt of court which I think is seldom invoked in the west. But when lawyers agitate and boycott courts or go on strike why the courts do not take it as an offense? A citizen is supposed to believe in approaching court but lawyers are exempted! What kind of justice is it if a lawyer will not perform his duty towards a client because he has a grouse against someone else?
Private Reply to 7 Th Thinking Hat |
| Dec 24, 2008 3:09 pm | | re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Ritu | | 'BTW I'm neither a judge, bor do I have one in the family, nor am I a lawyer and am subject to correction from more learned members of this forum ...'
~~Jayant you are not a lawyer but you definitely spoke like one n I am definitely amused by the way you interpreted solved vs adjudged...but I guess we tend to use the words loosely over here this not being court or law paper...solved bolo ya adjudged ki phark penda? as long as we get to the essence of the matter which is delay n not whether courts solve/adjudge :-p...but yep this kinda observations can get you full marks in Prof Ritu's law classes.
'Pls. write back if you need any help .. I 've got friends and contacts at good places.'
~~ I guess that must be the about the only way to get around the "Next Day", huh??
Rashmi, believe me the delay the is also painful in civil cases n I've got lotsa angst inside me cos of this.
Private Reply to Ritu |
| Dec 24, 2008 3:22 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Ritu | | ' I 've got friends and contacts at good places.'
~~I guess this is exactly what is used by the parties themselves to stall cases..what happens if both parties happen to have good contacts n one uses them to stall n the other tries to use them to hurry things up??
Private Reply to Ritu |
| Dec 25, 2008 7:45 am | | re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Vvek | | Very Interesting.........You are right Ritu. Infect I was laughing that day when Rahul Gandhi said that it is not only poor in India but he himself has never got justice - once in the case of his grand mother, Indra Gandhi & second in case of his father, Rajeev Gandhi.
I just pray that same should happen with other top politicians, Bureaucrats, Judges, police officers & Lawyers too so that they know this is what they saw so they will have to reap the same. But don’t you think that Rahul has shown his foolishness by making such a statement after all Congress has ruled most of the time in India after Independence. What a fool he is:-))))))
Private Reply to Vvek |
| Dec 26, 2008 7:29 am | | re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Rashmi Tandon | | Dear all,
Thanks a lot for the help!
Well we have hired very good experienced high/Supreme court lawyers. They are available on every hearing and doing best to what one can do at any point of time during hearing.
But, most of the time even they become helpless at the situation. Over a period of time even i have learned as Mr. Tiwari said "Three non-consecutive absentism from court leads to Ex-Party.", but in situation, where-in it is an alternate hearing.. one time u show ur presence and other time u r not there. So ??
Guys, yes like any other citizen of india I do accept the "endless dates given at the Indian Courts" to get the judgement for the case
All the best to all for the Year ahead :)Private Reply to Rashmi Tandon |
| Dec 27, 2008 2:32 am | | re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Vijay Nair | | Hmmm...Angst!!
Rashmi, you said - "Well we have hired very good experienced high/Supreme court lawyers. They are available on every hearing and doing best to what one can do at any point of time during hearing."
There are many factors that govern delay. Major of them is, like someone pointed before me, the outdated procedural laws and the reluctance of the Legislature for a review.
Like good Doctors and bad Doctors, good CAs and bad CAs, good Policemen and bad Policemen, there are good Lawyers and bad Lawyers. When we go to the best of the Doctors when we are not well, why not go to the best Lawyer when we are in need of Legal help? Of course, there is a price one has to pay for it, but that is always commensurate with the services that you are expected to receive.
From a lawyer's point of view, delay is a possible hazard when you contract with a lawyer on an "hourly" or "per-date" fees.
As for Judges, it is a thumb-rule that lawyers who are doing well professionally never opt for becoming judges. Except for the "sarkari show-off" there is nothing a judge gets more that a Babu. Add to that, if a judge is seen spending money or living a decent life, people brand him as corrupt. Back-log of cases, acting under pressure in certain matters from the higher courts, maintaining decorum of the court, bound within the four corners of law, the life of a judge is not easy or enviable.
One another interesting aspect. In recent years the number of judicial officers have increased in Delhi and after the Supreme Court's green light, the Government has bifurcated Delhi into 9 Districts. While as of now, 5 District Courts are functional, the other four would be in place soon. The increase in the number of judicial officers has seen cases being disposed off sooner and more effectively. Location of the Courts nearer to the litigants have also helped in reducing inconvenience to litigants.
Further, Delhi High Courts and District Courts proactively encourage mediating and conciliation with special cells created for this purpose. Believe me, a lot of "unsolved" cases have been resolve through mediation and conciliation in the past two years.
Judges and Lawyers cannot be blamed in isolation for the delay. In majority of cases, it is the Plaintiff or defendant himself who needs adjournment (for a good or a bad reason).
It is we, as in people, who have to change; change ourselves and change the system we have worked in. 62 years of independence have been spent in experimenting with the laws that British thrust upon us while they ruled. We have tried to amend and adapt the same laws over the years. Now is the time to send some proactive people to the parliament, who can, if they cant ensure how we behave, at least put rules in place for all of us to behave more appropriately.
Regards,
Vijay Nair, Partner
KNM & Partners, Law Offices
http://www.knm.in/Private Reply to Vijay Nair |
| Dec 27, 2008 2:43 am | | re: re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Rajat Ghosh | | what does a judge really care its just another day of work for him... unless he is accountable he will never change ... thats the nature of people ... Private Reply to Rajat Ghosh |
| Dec 28, 2008 9:18 am | | re: re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
harish vaidyanathan | | While there are certain points that have been mentioned in Vijay's post, without enumerating any, I would state that I disagree with some of the points mentioned therein. I would make an exception to the generalisation of the "thumb-rule" principle.
There are any number of good lawyers who are and would not mind being Judges. It is the red-tapism and general control exercised by our Legislators that dissuades better lawyers from ascending to the Bench. In that aspect I agree that there is a pressing need for good legislators.
However, given the current demography of our country, it would be very difficult for any single party/alliance with a focused and clear-cut agenda to come to power to enable the successful implementation of progressive(subjective definition again) policies.
I suppose the more practical and realistic approach would be a massive campaign to spread awareness about holistic policies, rather than specific policies pertaining to specific regions etc., highlighting therein the long-term good that would result. In short, educate the voters, a large chunk of whom are still in smaller towns and villages and wield the power to elect a party to power.
HarishPrivate Reply to harish vaidyanathan |
| Dec 28, 2008 6:25 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Ritu | | Vvek, perhaps like death the legal system is also a great equalizer!! What Rahul Gandhi said makes sense to me!! Private Reply to Ritu |
| Dec 29, 2008 12:08 pm | | re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Vvek | | Ritu, I am not sure if Legal system is also a great & perfect equalizer just like Death!!!
But if Rahul's forefathers – Nehru, Indra & Rajeev would have really seen ground realities & suffering of common men in India and taken few effective steps to make Legal system efficient & corruption free then today their Great Grand Son, Rahul would have got justice!!!
So people who rule the country have no right to make complaint about the inefficiency of that system which is made by them. They are themselves culprit in this case. They must also suffer due to such system just like Rahul.
And that's why What Rahul Gandhi said does not make sense to me!!! This was a complete nonsense from Rahul:-))
Private Reply to Vvek |
| Dec 30, 2008 6:12 am | | re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Rashmi Tandon | | Dear All,
Thanks again for giving your views. vijay, re: mediation you are right judges are playing their respective roles and cases are solved. But again, inspite of putting the case in mediation, if the opposition party dont act, even in that case court cannot do anything but to put back the case back for the normal judgement procedure.
Private Reply to Rashmi Tandon |
| Dec 30, 2008 12:13 pm | | re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
charuhasan | | As an outdated lawyer I believe that cases are won in spite of lawyers and justice is done in spite of judges. Private Reply to charuhasan |
| Jan 02, 2009 3:33 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Ritu | | Arrey Wah Vvek!!...yeh tau maine socha hee nahi tha! What you said makes sense to me now. :-) Private Reply to Ritu |
| Jan 03, 2009 7:36 pm | | re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Kamal Dave | | A music to ears to everybody, with the amendments in Civil Procedure Code, No adjournments could be sought on flimsy grounds and there is limitation.
"The court shall not grant more than three adjournments to either party to the suit...."Private Reply to Kamal Dave |
| Jan 06, 2009 6:08 am | | re: re: "Writing in Anger against the lawyers n judges" | # |
Rashmi Tandon | | Right sir and then you find the judge is changed. n in case of mediation it goes back to court, and parties can apply again for mediation ...if they want to settle. Private Reply to Rashmi Tandon |
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